Niche Zero, DF64 or ??? - Page 2

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
ShotPull
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#11: Post by ShotPull »

Tweakit wrote:Thanks for these helpful replies!
One thing I'd like to understand: is it possible to get that classical espresso profile that the Niche and other conical grinders are known for, by installing the right burr option into a DF64? I've heard some discussion about the SSP High Uniformity burrs in the DF64 and I've also heard about ceramic burrs that some say deliver a classical, thick espresso with darker roasts (I'm not sure if those ceramics fit the DF64). What I don't know is if these burr options simply move the DF64 closer to what the conical Niche does, or if they are just as good at producing that classical heavy style espresso as the Niche. Some insight on this would be appreciated.
It's still only been a couple of days for me with the new grinder but I ordered it with the Unimodal burrs. After reading the description on their site about the profiles and such, the more forgiving Unimodal made more sense for my uses. If you are super discerning and for lack of a better word "picky" about your flavor profiles, the high uniformity would be the way to go, or so I hear.

Vindibona1
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Joined: 7 years ago

#12: Post by Vindibona1 »

SutterMill wrote:I don't have nearly the experience of some members but I did have a friend who was crazy enough to purchase both the Niche and df-64 with SSP burrs to see which one he liked better. Even better was getting to borrow and compare with my Sette over 3 days and several lbs and types of coffee.

Long story short, the Sette and Niche were really close in flavor for most coffees and excelled at darker roasts. I had a difficult time telling them apart at times. The workflow, style and sound level is where the Niche Zero really shined. It was just...much more of a pleasant experience

The df-64 took the lighter roasts I had and made them shine. The acidity popped and the fruit flavors were very prominent in both home roasts as well as professional. Its considerably quieter than the Sette, but the work flow is not as nice as the Niche. When it came darker roasts I preferred the Sette and Niche as they had more balanced body and flavor.

Just my 2 cents
I'm glad to hear of your experience. I too have a Sette but no experience with any other decent grinders. My only other grinder was a Cuisinart, which did ok with my Saeco Sirena once I puts "Pringles" shims in it to get a fine enough grind. [Go ahead- ask]. The Niche is the buzz these days, but here in the US there aren't any really for sale except from the scalpers that want almost $1200 USD for one. I think I could probably get one out of the UK for around $700 but I think you just talked me out of thinking about "upgrading" to a Niche.

BTW and FWIW, Baratza support is incredible. My Sette 270 was purchased at the end of 2017 and this past year I've had the circuit board die, the motor/grind assembly die and they sent me all the replacements quickly and free of charge- and they were simple to self-replace. The design is so simple. The hardest things was getting the case apart the first time (because some of the screws are hidden). They have also upgraded a lot of their parts since this model was first released.

romlee
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#13: Post by romlee »

Quick note: please check the Niche website for availability. Two days ago I received an email from Niche stating that all US models were available for shipping in 7 days. I checked the website a couple of minutes ago and, indeed, both colors are available for US shipping within the stated time period. My own experience buying from Niche 3 months ago, shipped to New Jersey, was excellent: they shipped when promised and at the stated price. It arrived 4 days after I received shipping notification.
“Be curious, not judgemental.” T. Lasso

SutterMill
Posts: 337
Joined: 2 years ago

#14: Post by SutterMill »

Vindibona1 wrote:I'm glad to hear of your experience. I too have a Sette but no experience with any other decent grinders. My only other grinder was a Cuisinart, which did ok with my Saeco Sirena once I puts "Pringles" shims in it to get a fine enough grind. [Go ahead- ask]. The Niche is the buzz these days, but here in the US there aren't any really for sale except from the scalpers that want almost $1200 USD for one. I think I could probably get one out of the UK for around $700 but I think you just talked me out of thinking about "upgrading" to a Niche.

BTW and FWIW, Baratza support is incredible. My Sette 270 was purchased at the end of 2017 and this past year I've had the circuit board die, the motor/grind assembly die and they sent me all the replacements quickly and free of charge- and they were simple to self-replace. The design is so simple. The hardest things was getting the case apart the first time (because some of the screws are hidden). They have also upgraded a lot of their parts since this model was first released.

Don't get me wrong, using the Niche Zero is on another level. Its very quiet with a better work flow for single dosing. For me having an upgraded Sette 30 (270) its just not $350 worth of better but YMMV.

Lance Hedrick gives a nice little comparison if you want another opinion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni55qgVn_34

Vindibona1
Posts: 141
Joined: 7 years ago

#15: Post by Vindibona1 »

SutterMill wrote: Don't get me wrong, using the Niche Zero is on another level. Its very quiet with a better work flow for single dosing. For me having an upgraded Sette 30 (270) its just not $350 worth of better but YMMV.

Lance Hedrick gives a nice little comparison if you want another opinion. video
I saw Lance's video. I think if I didn't have the Sette myself I'd be looking at getting a Niche. Impossible to find in the US however. How does THAT happen? In fact a lot of espresso gear isn't available here.

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Jeff
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#16: Post by Jeff »

"Impossible" is a bit of an overstatement for the Niche Zero. The Niche Zero is generally available within a month, and has been for several months running now.

https://www.nichecoffee.co.uk/products/niche-zero
US white and US black models are shipped within 7 days.
DF64s are available in stock, optionally with SSP burrs, HU, MP, or "Lab Sweet"

https://www.espressooutlet.net/turin-df ... o-grinder/

(I have one from Espresso Outlet that I'm seasoning now)

True, there is a higher demand to availability for P64s and the $2,000 and up grinders, but that's not what this thread is discussing.

Tweakit (original poster)
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Joined: 2 years ago

#17: Post by Tweakit (original poster) »

Thanks for the good suggestions and hints.
I happened on this link below:
https://www.brewcoffeehome.com/conical- ... e-grinder/
where you will find "Because flat and conical burrs produce differences in particle distribution, each is likely to produce different flavor profiles in your espresso shots. Usually, conical burr grinders offer bright flavors that are floral and fruity with pleasant acidity. Meanwhile, flat burr grinders bring out the darker notes like chocolatey, nutty flavors with muted acidity."
This surprised me. I had thought the comparison was quite the opposite where the conical burrs favored the chocolatey, nutty flavors, with muted acidity (and heavier body). Is the author confused or am I confused? Did the author reverse things maybe?

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Jeff
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#18: Post by Jeff »

Classic flats, conicals, low-speed conical, and modern flats are all different. Go back 10 years before modern flats and you'll find that kind of opinion. Consider classic espresso and you'll probably find better conicals, especially at low speeds, being preferred over modern flats by many. Far too many "experts" marketing themselves on the Internet, few of whom have done any rigorous testing themselves. In the case of that specific page, it looks like pure SEO drivel, aimed at collecting affiliate commissions.

Tweakit (original poster)
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#19: Post by Tweakit (original poster) »

Thanks Jeff, for this insight. You said...
Jeff wrote:...Consider classic espresso and you'll probably find better conicals, especially at low speeds, being preferred over modern flats by many....
Consider the flavors I mentioned in my opening post. To recap, those are rich, full-bodied espresso, thick, smooth, chocolatey, nutty, caramel; acid is ok but, toned-down. Also, I tend to prefer dark roasts, well into the 2nd crack or approaching the end of the 2nd. I'm not the expert here, but I think those flavors are consistent with the so-called, "traditional espresso." I understand there are flats today that are specifically optimized to produce traditional espresso. Do you have an opinion as to which burrs, say the 63mm Mazzer conical (used in the Kony and NZ) or one of today's 64 mm flats, that is specifically optimized for traditional espresso, would do a better job at developing those flavors I mentioned?

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Jeff
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#20: Post by Jeff »

I am hoping someone else who regularly pulls those roast levels can offer suggestions.