I've usually associated dark chocolate taste notes with over extraction, but I'm wondering if they can indicate under extraction instead? At least once I've gone finer in grind and it's reduced chocolate, not increased it. Maybe this was just a better brew and it was happenstance?

Either way, I'd been working under the theory that sour-sweet-bitter is the general order of extraction and so thinking that grinding finer would push me further to the right towards more sweet/bitter has been the assumption; thus was confused when grinding finer seemed to produce more brightness clarity and less chocolate.

Either it's coincidence in the brew, or I have a misunderstanding?

A finer grind doesn't necessarily mean you'll get higher extraction.

Right. But is the understanding otherwise correct or incorrect?

Does this hold true even in filtered immersion brew?

In my experience, the sour-sweet-bitter progression is generally true, but it depends a lot on the bean and the roast level.

For example, a light roast might have some chocolate notes when less extracted, but when the extraction is increased bright acidic (not sour) notes might pop out that cover up the chocolate notes. Similarly, with a dark roast, bitter and/or roasty flavors might emerge with more extraction and cover up chocolate notes that were present at a lower extraction level.

Peppersass wrote: Similarly, with a dark roast, bitter and/or roasty flavors might emerge with more extraction and cover up chocolate notes that were present at a lower extraction level.

Definitely aligns with my experience.

What Dick said.

Ahh thank you. Yes I'm working on lighter roasts so when I was hitting chocolate, I'd aim for lower extraction instead of higher and I think this has been throwing me off. Thank you!

dsc106 wrote:I've usually associated dark chocolate taste notes with over extraction, but I'm wondering if they can indicate under extraction instead? At least once I've gone finer in grind and it's reduced chocolate, not increased it. Maybe this was just a better brew and it was happenstance?

Either way, I'd been working under the theory that sour-sweet-bitter is the general order of extraction and so thinking that grinding finer would push me further to the right towards more sweet/bitter has been the assumption; thus was confused when grinding finer seemed to produce more brightness clarity and less chocolate.

Either it's coincidence in the brew, or I have a misunderstanding?

going finer can increase channeling which would mean there will be both over-extraction and under-extraction at the same time and the under-extraction may be overpowering. if you can knock out a clean spent puck knock it out on a plate or even the table and let it dry. if there are dark areas at the bottom of the spent puck these are areas that are under-extracted (still have coffee stuff that hasn't been dissolved) and if you look at the side or cut the spent puck in half these dark areas should only go up a few mm deep showing you how the flow starts to favor paths the deeper it goes.

if channeling is the issue but you still want to go finer better puck prep may help. WDT probably is the single best solution out there but going beyond WDT would be using a paper filter at the bottom of the basket and using a puck screen at the top. The paper stops fines from clogging up the basket holes which may be a direct cause of increased channeling because if the holes are clogged at a certain area the flow will go around it, not through it creating these dark spots where the flow is going around. the puck screen also will help preserve the integrity of the puck for longer so it doesn't fall apart (which increases channeling) but if you don't have a puck screen you can still use a piece of paper. Generally, the impact is faster shots which of course allows you to go finer.

with the paper filter the puck knocks out cleanly and you can continue to check the spent pucks for dark spots to know how consistent the shots you pulled are. in the end, the taste is the final determiner, and either you like or don't like a shot regardless of what steps you took. the dark spots help you troubleshoot as a type of feedback loop but they don't indicate what is a good or bad shot.

I think it might also be relevant to think about what you mean when you say chocolate flavor. Chocolate, like coffee, is an incredibly complex food with a bean that can produce aromatic compounds resembling those found in many other foods (fruits, nuts, vegetables, etc.) and therefore one person's conception of chocolate flavor could differ from another's and likely contains elements of many different flavors.

For example, I doubt you mean Hershey's chocolate when you think of a chocolate tasting note, however, it contains Butyric acid giving a distinct sweet yet slightly acidic taste that is chocolate flavored (if you grew up eating it) but also has acidity.

Dark chocolates we think tend to err more on the side of bitterness, and that's generally true, but depending on the region they're grown in (esp high elevation chocolates grown in some African countries) there are certainly very acidic elements among the bitter flavor.

I definitely agree in general that chocolate tends to be a more bitter flavor that is extracted later than acidic components. As others have noted depending on the roast level, coffee, and method of brewing that grinding coarser/extracting less could produce more chocolate flavors. I just think it's interesting to consider what a chocolate flavor tastes like to you considering if there are possibly other elements to it that could lie more on the acidic/fruity side.