Correct, his point was about the decreasing size of the bars, but of course he explained that phenomenon in terms of organic evolution and selective pressure. He was a superb biologist who was able to explain evolutionary concepts simply and accurately. The Structure of Evolutionary Theory is probably he best overview of the subject, published in the year of his death, way too early.

BaristaMcBob wrote:On one level, manufacturers make them because consumers want them.

But isn't an E61 just a mechanical version of a 3-way solenoid? And other designs have figured out a way to keep the brew group warm. Pre-infusion control is nice, but it doesn't work unless you're direct plumbed - so that rules out 90% of home machines.

For example, Bezzera makes a machine with an electrically heated group and 3-way solenoid. Yet, they also make a machine with an E61 group. Why both types?

Besides being very beautiful, the E61 design is straightforward and understandable. There's no secret behind it.

It's odd, in the sense that we still have a solenoid valve and today, they all use microprocessors. But compared to a volumetric machine, everything's mechanical, and it's a very well-proven, 50+ year-old design.

If I ran a cafe, I'd want volumetric machines. I could spend 15-30 minutes dialing in each morning, and get consistent shots the rest of the day. But we brew at home only 2-4 shots a day, so volumetric isn't very helpful.

PeetsFan wrote:It's odd, in the sense that we still have a solenoid valve and today, they all use microprocessors.

It's the cheapest, most efficient binary electro-mechanical device. It's either fully closed or fully open, all microprocessor controlled and beautiful in its timeless elegant simplicity.

What I mean is, all E61 machines today are still microprocessor controlled. They are more mechanical than other machines, but they're still computer controlled. My Bezzera E61 is heavily processor controlled. I'm certain that an E61 from 1961 isn't microprocessor controlled, but they are now.

So... that's the odd part. We like the E61 in part because it's more mechanical than volumetric machine, even though both are still microprocessor controlled.

gorbay wrote:I personally enjoy having access to standardized components from various vendors, and a ton of information about maintenance and repairs. Some things don't need redesigned imho.

Group head maintenance and repairs? Why, if you can have simple head and don't bother with it at all.
E61 is old design which limits possibilities of new machines. Like hydraulic power steering or solid axle beam in cars.

Henry, call back in 10 years when my e61's will be having their 25th birthday.

I have two pals who dumped Breville [Sage] DB after about 3 years due to repeated failures.
Independently, both bought e61's, albeit much more sophisticated than my antiques.

I don't know as much as many people here, but I bought an e61 last year after a lot of research. As I see it, the Breville DB, while more technologically advanced, is still more of a consumer appliance whereas a high end e61 is more of a scaled down version of a commercial machine. I've had enough experience with things that don't last and caused me frustration. I wanted something that was a tank - a robust piece of machinery with a premium feel that could pull shot after shot for decades.

So for me, Breville/Sage was out. Too fragile in the long run, I don't like non standardized parts and shipping things around for warranty sucks. It feels more like a toy. So it was either a Decent or an e61 DB. I went for the latter because the Decent is still in its infancy.

I do think designs like the Decent are the future. I'll be excited to revisit that in years down the road when it's more mature. For some people, living on the bleeding edge of espresso is fun. For most people, they just want to a reliable machine that makes great coffee, so they can enjoy a cup and get on with their day.

An e61 most certainly hits the 80/20 rule - and if you tinker with flow control and spend time dialing in your craft, it gets you much, much farther than 80% of the way. And it does it with minimal frustration, maximal reliability, and beautiful aesthetics.

baldheadracing wrote:
The original ECM - before the bankruptcies and lawsuits that led to Rocket and Profitec - became popular for home use in part because ECM used the same group that people were used to seeing in restaurants, corner stores, etc. Long after the association was lost, ECM and copycats ruled the market for home pump machines.

Can anyone tell me more about the history of ECM and how rocket and profitec were born? I own a Synchronika and so am curious the history of my brand!

AFAIK, Faema invented the e61. Faema got in trouble. V, B & M started Vibiemme in the mid 70's see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-61

dsc106 wrote:Can anyone tell me more about the history of ECM and how rocket and profitec were born? I own a Synchronika and so am curious the history of my brand!

That is a story worth looking up and enjoying as you follow it. It involves, as I remember, bicycle manufacturers and at least more than one "story of intrigue" that you'll probably never get to the bottom of without some personal connections in the area. When I was reading through it, it seemed that most of the manufacturers were pretty well intertwined in their histories.

Faema sponsored Eddy Merckx and mere mortals.
The Giro d'Italia was nicknamed Giro de Faema

Faema | Our tradition, our history