Comandante vs 1Zpresso microns does not match

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
N714

#1: Post by N714 »

Hi

I have 2 grinders Comandante without redclix and 1Zpresso k-plus

Comandante is 30 micron/click
K-plus is 22.5 micron/click

When I use same coffee same output in time and grams for espresso
Comandante is 7 clicks * 30 micron = 210 micron
K-plus is 30 clicks * 22.5 = 675 micron

And the same for filter 20 click for Comandante and 60 clicks for k-plus

It seems like on of the numbers 22.5 or 30 microns is not accurate. The difference is huge. Did anyone experience the same?

mikelipino

#2: Post by mikelipino »

I believe the micron/click stated for conical grinders is the vertical movement of the bottom burr (distance between threads on the center axle / number of markings on the dial). However each burr has it's own pitch, and the distance between burrs will depend on pitch angle as the bottom burr moves. So I don't think the microns/click is comparable between grinders.

N714 (original poster)

#3: Post by N714 (original poster) »

Interesting!

It is always compared in reviews between grinders. Then if my comparison is accurate, K-plus still has more clicks than Comndante with redclixs

jpender

#4: Post by jpender »

Do the burrs touch at zero for both grinders?

N714 (original poster)

#5: Post by N714 (original poster) »

Yes handle stops at Zero in both grinders

mikelipino

#6: Post by mikelipino »

Ah, here's the video that I was thinking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53cogUc7K6U

jpender

#7: Post by jpender »

N714 wrote:It is always compared in reviews between grinders. Then if my comparison is accurate, K-plus still has more clicks than Comndante with redclixs

I'd be careful about coming to that conclusion.

Vertical distance resolution is usually specified because it's simpler. Change in burr gap is more complicated and not necessarily linear. According to the Specialty Turkish Coffee website the Red Clix provides a vertical adjustment of 15µm and a "typical" burr gap adjustment of 5.5µm (per click). Who knows what it is for the 1Zpresso.

Instead of comparing the absolute settings a better test would be to measure the effect of changing the settings. That's what really matters for practical purposes. For example, change the setting of one of the grinders by N clicks and see if that produces a repeatable change in the shot time. Then figure out how many clicks with the other grinder produces the same change.

N714 (original poster)

#8: Post by N714 (original poster) »

jpender wrote: I'd be careful about coming to that conclusion.

Vertical distance resolution is usually specified because it's simpler. Change in burr gap is more complicated and not necessarily linear. According to the Specialty Turkish Coffee website the Red Clix provides a vertical adjustment of 15µm and a "typical" burr gap adjustment of 5.5µm (per click). Who knows what it is for the 1Zpresso.

Instead of comparing the absolute settings a better test would be to measure the effect of changing the settings. That's what really matters for practical purposes. For example, change the setting of one of the grinders by N clicks and see if that produces a repeatable change in the shot time. Then figure out how many clicks with the other grinder produces the same change.
I'm not trying to get to any conclusion here but rather discuss the the difference I see :)

I would like to try your method however on the regular clix, one click course it's a turbo shot, and one click finer it chokes my machine. On the other hand in the 1Z one click is around 5 sec in shot time.

If red clix double the clix as they mention in the website 7 clicks should be 14 clicks which is still way narrower than 30 compared to 1z

jpender

#9: Post by jpender »

You may very well be right about it. I had the impression that the Comandante excelled at brewed coffee as opposed to espresso. The Red Clix thing seems like a kludge to me.

iyayy

#10: Post by iyayy »

i encountered the same issue here when trying to follow any commandante recipe online. 32clicks does not match 1z 43clicks, too fine on 1z i have to go about 87 to match brew times with same recipe. good to know this happens.
otherwise im at same 5s shot time difference when dialling espresso. i change between brew, espresso, and beans a lot, never had issues to redo the same recipe. super consistent.
btw just wondering how do u find c40 vs the k? im curious about the taste but i dont think i wanna go back to clicky stuff under burr after living with the k.