Basket Science or Propaganda - Page 5

#41: Post by **Jonk** » December 21st, 2021, 8:13 am

For me, the strongest case for precision baskets is that there's an effort to make them near identical. For those that don't want to think or discuss about baskets, it's one of the features.

#42: Post by **bbobbert3** » December 21st, 2021, 9:37 am

I have done a lot of hole analysis on baskets, and there is definitely a difference between precision and non-precision.

With some more color

Then you can look at the spatial distribution of the holes, and that tells its own story.

Finally, you can compare a stock and a precision basket:

In terms of taste and extraction, I haven't done a larger study because I'm not interested, but someone should.

December 21st, 2021, 10:46 am

bbobbert3 wrote:In terms of taste and extraction, I haven't done a larger study because I'm not interested, but someone should.

BTDT: How filter baskets affect espresso taste and barista technique

Um... not interested in taste??

December 21st, 2021, 10:55 am

gscace wrote:...a specific espresso machine ... there is something to brew baskets. In my opinion everything that can have an effect on the flow of water through coffee can affect what comes out in the cup.

Exactamundo. Change one thing, change everything. It's every bit as likely that a precision basket could make things worse.

#45: Post by **bbobbert3** » December 21st, 2021, 11:02 am

RapidCoffee wrote:BTDT: How filter baskets affect espresso taste and barista technique

Um... not interested in taste??

For a single shot comparison, there was a big taste impact.

For extraction yield it was about the same

I'd need more data before I'd make an extraction claim. However, the other point is that precision baskets should be more similar to each other.

December 21st, 2021, 12:34 pm

Who was making the 'spro? Taster?

The taste graph looks close to more everything. I'd expect more delta between components.

#47: Post by **gscace** » December 21st, 2021, 3:19 pm

cafeIKE wrote:Exactamundo. Change one thing, change everything. It's every bit as likely that a precision basket could make things worse.

I don't think so. Things that improve flow field uniformity tend to reduce regions of under / overextraction. I fail to see how introducing non-uniformity in basket hole effective diameters and introducing bias in hole sizes across a basket (one side having larger holes) can do anything good for extraction.

December 22nd, 2021, 10:55 am

I should have said a particular precision basket. There's a lot variables in them than holes.

As yet, I've not seen any analysis of puck extraction defects in baskets that are identical save hole uniformity.

#49: Post by **Andrewp** » December 30th, 2021, 4:42 pm

Man alive... this is surely just going over the top and taking all the fun away from a decent cup of coffee

Ok it's nice to have good/great gear for sure. I'm in that rabbit hole waaaay deep!!

I bet if there were blind tests done with what ever iteration of basket is deemed best in conjunction with what ever beans are deemed best for said basket not a lot of folk would notice differences if the basket was changed!!

I use supermarket beans..(there are ALL around the same money) because there are rotated on a regular basis so freshness is probably a safer bet.
If I get the grind setting right,coffee tamper nicely and milk frothed properly I would challenge anyone to complain about what I'd presented!

January 1st, 2022, 2:15 pm

Hi there:

I remember the times when precise temperature control, pressure profiling, use of refractometers, ideas like quantifying brew ratio, TDS and extraction yield, brewing by weight and on and on were dismissed by folks who said "I bet if there were blind tests done.....", like you just wrote. Now all the things I mentioned above are the accepted tools and practices for brewing the best possible coffee. I make part of my living doing the scut work that proves those techniques work. I have data that suggests you might want to look at baskets as part of your whole brewing approach. The data was obtained as part of work I did to help a company improve their product offerings, so unfortunately it's proprietary. I'm sorry for that. My reputation for not bullshitting in this business is pretty good and I hope that is good enough for you.

I like to think of making the best possible coffee as a whack a mole problem. Having high quality raw coffee is one of the biggest fish to fry. Then you have to introduce pressurized hot water to a properly ground bed of coffee. Grinds particle size distributions matter greatly, as does temperature. How the water flows through the coffee dictates how much of the coffee is properly extracted. Within the hierarchy of moles too whack, baskets are a part of that flow system. I don't know what supermarket coffee you are using, how it's roasted, the type of coffee, its freshness. If there are problems with the coffee you are using, baskets don't mean anything. But if you are using fresh, high quality coffees and yu are trying to produce the best possible espresso, then the little moles add up - but only after the big ones are whacked.

-Greg