Jonk wrote:Perhaps cranking the handle faster or slower than you usually do on the Helor 106 could shift the flavor experience somewhat?

Funnily enough I was actually wondering myself what the effect of RPM might be. I'm half considering getting a Lagom P64, and I noticed it had a RPM gauge to change speed.

I can certainly go slower, going too much faster might be a physical challenge...

Yes, there are multiple variables as well as variation without any apparent change in variables. You can try all sorts of things with regard to grind, tamp, preinfusion time, water temperature, preheating, pressure, shot ratio, and shot time. I'm sure I've forgotten something. You will need several kilos of coffee to experiment.

This morning one shot flowed unexpectedly slow despite everything being the same, or so I thought. I ended up with a ristretto at 16g in, 15g out in 44 seconds. And it was really, really good. I wish I could say I had planned that. Actually, I wish I could say I knew why only this one shot ran so slowly.

jpender wrote:I wish I could say I knew why only this one shot ran so slowly.

One thing I noticed (on Flair at least) is that exact moment when you increase the force/pressure from preinfusion to extraction has significant influence into further running of the shot. It's different if you do it before, at, slightly after or several second after first drop, and in manual machine, it's not easy to do it same way every time

It's just one variable out of many ...

vit wrote:One thing I noticed (on Flair at least) is that exact moment when you increase the force/pressure from preinfusion to extraction has significant influence into further running of the shot. It's different if you do it before, at, slightly after or several second after first drop, and in manual machine, it's not easy to do it same way every time

So you think this source of variability may be peculiar to manual levers because of the human timing element? For those shots I wasn't doing any preinfusion. But of course I cannot go from zero to full pressure instantaneously so perhaps the finite time of ramp up, even if just 1-3 seconds, makes a difference. I suspect it may be at least in part puck preparation variability. But it's hard to disentangle.

And although while fooling around I did get one really good shot when I tried pulling 10g with the Robot my sense is that variability would be greater with that small of a dose. I could be wrong though.

K7 wrote:E&B IMS Super Fine baskets have tapered bottom. They also have a unique additional metal filter at the bottom, kinda like putting an Aeropress filter like some people do.

Thanks, K7! Found an online seller in Germany and ordered. Will try them out on the old Bezzera B3000 AL.

my favorite shots have been 15g in 40g out shots.

6-7 bars pressure, sometimes 3-5 seconds of pre infusion, turbo shot pulled in 15 seconds after preinfusion. just amazing clarity, flavor, acidity, sweetnesses everything.

with a preheat of the piston and basket, this short shot also minimizes the impact of heat variations on the system.

I think the particulars of ratio, time, and temperature, and maybe dose too, depend to a great extent on the type of coffee. I've have some coffees that do best the way you've described. But the coffee I'm drinking at the moment would be horrible if treated the same way.

Don't think I've seen mention of doses around 7g on the thread yet. Have people tried doing that dose with consistent success?

I attempted a couple of times but it's a big hit or miss. I put the paper filter, and tamp with a pill bottle cap (while holding the bottle). Sometimes it channels and sprays, and sometimes it flows really well, and sometimes it is just clogged.

What is the allure of a very small dose? I've never used anything less than 16g and right now I'm using 20g of India Mysore, 40g out and it's very good in my latte.

Less caffeine, more chances to pull shots and experiment, I'd imagine. When I first started with levers with my La Peppina long ago I played with the single basket while experimenting with temperature and pressure while drinking every shot. With my Robot, it's typically 16 - 18 grams.