Cafelat Robot low doses - Page 5

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benhb
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#41: Post by benhb »

vit wrote:One thing I noticed (on Flair at least) is that exact moment when you increase the force/pressure from preinfusion to extraction has significant influence into further running of the shot. It's different if you do it before, at, slightly after or several second after first drop, and in manual machine, it's not easy to do it same way every time

It's just one variable out of many ...
Jon Gagné had a similar observation on his article about puck prep & resistance.

Adding a pause after preinfusion can let the puck saturate more fully, affecting resistance/flow during extraction.

mixespresso
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#42: Post by mixespresso »

It is great to see that low dose espressos can be brewed on the cafelat Robot. I have also watched YouTube vids that claimed it was not possible to do. So, as a Robot potential buyer, that makes me happy

The part I did not understand in Paul's video was the emphasis in high pressure. Is high pressure advisable when brewing single shots? I'd have thought that, to reduce flow, the opposite would be better.

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Jonk
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#43: Post by Jonk »

He was proving a point. While it is certainly possible, it's also often not ideal. The tamper might not be able to compress the grounds and you might have to grind finer than you'd like (or even possible depending on what grinder and beans you're using).

Truly small doses are a challenge on most "full-sized" baskets either way. But there are baskets with smaller diameter that'll make it easy.
mixespresso wrote:I'd have thought that, to reduce flow, the opposite would be better.
If you forego pre-infusion and aim for somewhere above 9 bars straight away, there's more resistance from the grounds and flow will be greatly reduced. It might sound a little counterintuitive, but sometimes it's really the only way to slow down a shot.

This is one of the few reasons I can think of not to recommend a Robot, say if someone wanted to regularly pull 7g shots. On the other hand, on some of the machines made for singles that's all you can do, while you can comfortably pull quadruples with a Robot basket :lol:

jpender
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#44: Post by jpender »

A 7g dose on the Robot seems like a job for an aftermarket (smaller diameter) basket or maybe a 3-D printed insert. And a different tamper.

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Jeff
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#45: Post by Jeff »

No matter the machine, as the puck gets thinner, grind quality and puck prep become more critical. If you want 7-9g doses, I'd buy a classic Italian domestic lever with an appropriate basket, like a VAM/Arrarex or which ever one excites you most.

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bringyoutomyhell
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#46: Post by bringyoutomyhell »

7-9g doses and no tamp can only work with a very soluble dark roast, otherwise 14g is really the bare minimum to avoid the basket taper

mborkow
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#47: Post by mborkow replying to bringyoutomyhell »

I agree < 10 might not be worthwhile but I've had success with 10 and settled on 13 grams for my morning shots; 2:1 with 5-10 seconds preinfusion and 20-25 seconds for the balance of the shot.

Nate42
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#48: Post by Nate42 »

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. The Robot is great but there are better choices for single shots. The robot basket is nominally a standard 14g double basket and should no more be expected to produce a good single shot than if you underdosed a double basket in an e61.

jpender
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#49: Post by jpender »

Perhaps not with the stock basket as is. But what if one were to fit an adapter into the bottom of the basket, a donut that created a cylinder of smaller diameter for the bottom 20mm? You'd need a smaller tamper but otherwise you'd have a basket with better dimensions for a low dose. It seems like a feasible thing to do and a lot less expensive than buying a whole new machine.

Aren't there single baskets made in a similar vein for e61 machines?


By the way, how does the puck height in a traditional lever single basket loaded with 7-8g compare to a 58mm basket loaded with 18-20g?

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Jeff
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#50: Post by Jeff »

The Arrarex baskets that I have are around 25 mm deep, comparable to 58 mm baskets with a "double" dose.