Cafelat Robot's V-seal is not generic? - Page 3

#21: Post by **Paul_Pratt** » June 19th, 2022, 9:00 pm

Scott-ishBrewer wrote:So I'll go back to my old question, can a generic black V-seal with 52×40×7mm fit the robot? Cause I can't find any actual evidence that it does or does not? Is my friend is just unlucky? The V-seal on the Robot is 49.5×40.5×7.8mm and I think this might be concerning. Can I see it fitting on one?

If the Robot can use the black V-seal, then the robot would have become very tempting offer.
Again, its more about the future serviceability, the robot's V-seal price is fair.

This is a classic case of believing hearsay rather than actually testing before going on forums and causing a stir. The seal the Robot uses is the same as we sold for the modern lever group from 2013 until I think 2 years ago when I adjusted the height of the modern lever seal. The Red Robot seal is the same as the standard seal sold and used by most modern lever group companies, only instead of rubber I chose silicone.

So side by side the Robot seal and standard rubber lever seal. For example NR part 700708 https://nuovaricambi.net/it/product/387 ... ilia?pt=16

The sizes are identical. How people have written the sizes on their websites may vary. For example I measure across the bottom of the seal, whereas I can see NR and EPNW have measure the actual flared section, hence the difference on paper.

Here is the rubber seal on the piston

And said seal subsequently pulling a shot. 1st attempt and leaning over a tripod, so no judging.

I hope this puts it to rest once and for all. The silicone seals are a big part of my life since I introduced them many years ago. My aim was to make them standard in all machines. We supply 5 main machine brands as an OEM manufacturer and our record is 80k units a month.

The reason why the Robot uses a standard seal was because the Baby Faemina seals have not been available for 50 years. I made a new piston for my Baby using the modern lever seal and stuck with that design on the Robot.

Silicone keeps much better in stock than rubber. How long does a seal last? In my experience years. The 1st ever Robot is still on the same seal for 5 years with daily use at home, just 1 shot per day.

Anytime someone says a new Robot has seal issues I know exactly what it is. The seal needs to be seated correctly. At the beginning it is still taking shape, with use it will flare out. I ask people to make sure it is sitting correctly because I tested it 3x with no issue. They then ignore my advice and either replace the seal and voila it works and therefore 1st seal was bad. Not really because all you did was reseat a new seal and start to use it, which is what I said do with the 1st.

Hope that clears it all up.

#22: Post by **LuckyMark** » June 19th, 2022, 9:13 pm

Scottish Brewer, can I ask what is your objective here? Every single post you have made is to criticise choices made on the Robot.

I agree with most posters, someone or somebody will create seals to satisfy the market, if Cafelat isn't around - and by the look of his photos Paul Pratt looks like he has another 20 years work in him. I would see him selling spares for his baby into his retirement. Or someone like Orphan Espresso. The real question is what is your alternative? There really isn't that many with a better, more secure supply of spares at this pricepoint. This is a US$300 item, if spares aren't available in 10 years time I will park it, look at it and remember the good times I had with it, and be happy I had my moneys worth. This isn't a half million GT2 Porsche I am wondering if I will have security of parts supply in 20 years time.

#23: Post by **TreCime** » June 19th, 2022, 9:26 pm

I'm loving my robot, happy with the seal, and pleased that Paul uses a superior material. I have little worry about the future of this machine (especially since the demonstrable functionality of a standard seal); it's a great design and will likely always generate a market. Tipping my hat to a man who has enriched the coffee world!

#24: Post by **LuckyMark** » June 19th, 2022, 9:27 pm

Nice debunking of the hearsay Paul.

Can I ask an off topic question as you are online? There has been some speculation the gauge location/orientation may change on the Barista versions of the Robot. Is this likely and any timeframe? Thanks

#25: Post by **Paul_Pratt** » June 20th, 2022, 12:28 am

LuckyMark wrote:Can I ask an off topic question as you are online? There has been some speculation the gauge location/orientation may change on the Barista versions of the Robot. Is this likely and any timeframe? Thanks

I have tried a few different positions before and after launch. The arm makes so much sense as it places less stress on the tube because the piston and tube can move up and down together. I have looked at a top mounted gauge and it may solve the viewing from above issue but it creates more issues.

So right now I do not have any new gauge brackets in the pipeline. We have had people suggest to do something but nothing ever pans out. If someone has an idea then they can get in touch.

#26: Post by **LuckyMark** » June 20th, 2022, 12:38 am

Thanks very much Paul. I think it is almost a non existant issue after the first dozen uses

June 20th, 2022, 12:45 am

Paul_Pratt wrote:This is a classic case of believing hearsay rather than actually testing before going on forums and causing a stir. The seal the Robot uses is the same as we sold for the modern lever group from 2013 until I think 2 years ago when I adjusted the height of the modern lever seal. The Red Robot seal is the same as the standard seal sold and used by most modern lever group companies, only instead of rubber I chose silicone.

Thanks, this finally answered my question. Then I hope my future robot can fit a Generic V-Seal if anything happened to the one that came with the Robot.

LuckyMark wrote:Scottish Brewer, can I ask what is your objective here? Every single post you have made is to criticise choices made on the Robot.

I agree with most posters, someone or somebody will create seals to satisfy the market, if Cafelat isn't around - and by the look of his photos Paul Pratt looks like he has another 20 years work in him. I would see him selling spares for his baby into his retirement. Or someone like Orphan Espresso. The real question is what is your alternative? There really isn't that many with a better, more secure supply of spares at this pricepoint. This is a US$300 item, if spares aren't available in 10 years time I will park it, look at it and remember the good times I had with it, and be happy I had my moneys worth. This isn't a half million GT2 Porsche I am wondering if I will have security of parts supply in 20 years time.

So I'll try to make it as clear as possible. Since Cafelat Robot is almost fully made out of steel, then it must be sturdy enough to least for at least 5 decades. Then I want to maximize my use on my $300 Robot for that long. I want to get the most out of the Robot.

I dont want the hassle on taking care of custom and pay double or triple for the seal from possible custom tax or expensive shipping fee. If someome were to start satisfying the demand that Cafelat doesn't, its also possible that I have to pay the high shipping fee. With generic V-seals that is already in my local market, I don't have these worries.

And so, I started looking for answer in this forum.

June 20th, 2022, 1:11 am

Over an estimated 2800 shots and still on the original.

June 20th, 2022, 1:17 am

Good for you, but the V-seal won't last you 50 years. That is beyond the material's capability.

June 20th, 2022, 1:41 am

Wonderful. 1. I have a spare. 2. There are rubber non Cafelat replacements that will work. 3. I won't last 50 years.