Profitec Pro 800 plumbing/PID issue

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adriel

#1: Post by adriel »

Hi all!
I'm the proud new owner of a Profitec Pro 800, which I upgraded to from a Rocket Giotto V2 Evoluzione (non-PID). I was drawn to the more analog/mechanical nature of the lever machine, but somehow managed to have what appears to be electrical issues. LOL -- just my luck!

SHORT version:

PID shuts off after pressure falls below a certain level (after use), and won't turn on until pressure has fallen below a certain point and I turn off/on the machine, at which point the tank finally takes in water and will re-start the warm up process.


LONG version:

When I first received the machine, almost a month ago, I used the external water reservoir with distilled water, as I didn't want to build up scale, and it worked just fine (unlike in the Giotto, which used a different water level sensor in the reservoir, that would not sense distilled or RO water!)

Last weekend, I finally managed to install a RO water filter/treatment system to plumb into the machine.
Since the switch-over to plumbing in, though, I've begun to have the following problem:

1) Machine starts up fine, takes in water, and heats up to the PID temperature.
2) After pulling a few shots and steaming milk, the water tank appears to *not* refill. (no plumbing water flow noise)
3) As pressure falls, the PID does not turn on the heater.
(This, I think, is because the tank "doesn't have enough water" -- according to the trouble shooting section of the manual.)
4) When pressure falls below an as-yet-unknown ("unobserved" to be accurate) threshold, I hear the click of a relay, and the PID switches off. (PID screen goes dark)
5) Pressure continues to fall with the PID off, even though the machine is still on. (Green light on, orange light off)
6) When pressure has fallen further, below a certain point (I'm not sure what), I am able to power off then power on the machine, and it will take in water again until the tank is full -- at which point the PID starts again as if it were a cold start.
7) however, above the pressure/temp mentioned in 6), turning the machine off/on does not have any effect.

Any ideas what's going on here??

I thought it might be a water pressure issue, but unfortunately the installer of the RO filter didn't give me a pressure reading on the feed tube.
But, when I pull drinking water from a T-off the same tube, it seems comparable to the pressure that fed my Giotto (which did not have this problem... since it didn't have PID?)

Besides the water pressure issue, could it be a faulty sensor somewhere in the system? It's been acting like this for 4 or 5 days now, and is quite annoying...
Any help would be much appreciated!
Thanks!

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another_jim
Team HB

#2: Post by another_jim »

It sounds like it doesn't know its plumbed, and is acting on an empty tank. Check the manual, and the switches used to change over. There may be a loose connection. You may also want to defeat the tank sensor.

A second possibility, given your water choices, is that the boiler water is too low in minerals, and that the auto refill circuits are not working reliably. You need at least 25 TDS for it to work reliably (also, most people think shots taste dreadful when made with water below 50 TDS); you should be adding minerals or adjusting your RO filter accordingly.
Jim Schulman

User avatar
adriel (original poster)

#3: Post by adriel (original poster) »

Thanks, Jim!
I didn't realize that the tank water sensor relied on TDS (just as my Rocket's reservoir sensor).

Is there a quick and dirty (no pun intended) way to test this? If it worked with distilled water, I would have imagined it would work with RO water...
Hmm... unless the reservoir level sensor is prioritized over the tank water sensor?

This is a good idea though -- I'll try to test it out -- it sounds more likely to be (close to?) the culprit, as I've checked the plumbing and switches multiple times. Of course, I'll go back and have another look at those, too.

Thanks again!

User avatar
another_jim
Team HB

#4: Post by another_jim »

Caveat, I'm no expert on this machine; I was listing general things to check. A simple way of checking the boiler refill is, when the machine is running normally, to flush the boiler through the hot water tap. If there are any problems when the refill kicks in, you've located the problem. If the difficulty is with the low mineral water, it will show as the boiler overfilling.
Jim Schulman

blackrobe1540

#5: Post by blackrobe1540 »

Wondering if anyone found a solution? I just plumbed in my Pro 800 this afternoon. Same situation as the OP.

For me, both green and orange lights are on. When I empty the boiler a certain amount through the hot water tap, I hear a buzzing sound (the pump trying to kick in?). At the same time (usually) the PID goes dark, pressure drops, then eventually as the boiler reheats and gains pressure the PID returns. I've done this cycle several times - the boiler is getting water from the plumbed line. Why the buzzing. I thought this was supposed to be a silent machine all plumbed in?

Any help would be appreciated.
John in Chicago
LMWDP #561

User avatar
HB
Admin

#6: Post by HB »

blackrobe1540 wrote:When I empty the boiler a certain amount through the hot water tap, I hear a buzzing sound (the pump trying to kick in?).
Just to be sure, is this switch in the "1" position? That should disable the onboard vibratory pump.


See Profitec Pro 800: User Manual for more details
Dan Kehn

GregoryJ

#7: Post by GregoryJ »

Also I think the "image 1" in the manual is backwards. The valve in the back is in the tank fed orientation in that picture.

blackrobe1540

#8: Post by blackrobe1540 »

Hi, thanks for your replies. Switches are all in the correct position. I've even gone so far as to test how the machine operates when it's in each combination. When the bottom valve is set according to the manual (pointing towards the water line connection) is when I get a buzzing. I'm not sure if it's the pump or not. When it's making this buzzing and I turn the valve it's not an on/off situation. It "feels" like closing off a faucet - or water line! When I tried the valve in the alternate position there is no buzzing, but the boiler does not fill either. When the buzzing happens the boiler is filling -- through some mechanism. Very frustrating. I contacted WLL but no response yet.

This is all part of a project plumbing the machine of course but also adding the inline BWT filter. Since I've hooked all of that up the water coming out is very milky and even a little yellow. My normal water is around 166 ppg. The milky water is registering much higher - over 200. The internet says the milkiness is "just bubbles" but it looks off and tastes off too. Again, I thought the BWT was supposed to be fairly plug and play. The water before the filter looks normal. After the filter - not so much.

Anything I can try to remedy these issues?
John in Chicago
LMWDP #561

User avatar
SoCalSeaBreeze

#9: Post by SoCalSeaBreeze »

I had the same issues when I first set up my Profitec Pro 800 a few months ago. Thank goodness for Clive Coffee's excellent customer service and patience with trouble shooting - I highly recommend Clive Coffee just for their great support. This is the video they sent me that finally solved the problem raising the temp of the PID solved the pressure problems and water filling problems.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... z4iYAVm4Rv

blackrobe1540

#10: Post by blackrobe1540 »

Hi, thanks for this :-)

I just tried it and no luck. When the boiler empties to a certain point (10 seconds or so on the hot water wand) the Orange light and PID go out. At that point I hear an awful buzzing sound (i assume it's a pump?). The boiler refills and the Orange light and PID come back on.

I followed the video step by step but I'm not sure what the goal was?

Thanks!
John
John in Chicago
LMWDP #561