Hi All,

This is Andrew Pernicano with Flair Espresso. I've been a member of this forum since 2006, and I will now be the person actively participating here in the capacity of Flair Espresso.

I invite you to use this thread to hit us up with questions about products and developments, as well as learn about any promotions we may be running both publicly and exclusively for HB Members such as the Flair PRO Bundle deal.

I look forward to being a resource to this community in any way that I can, offering fact checks and clarity whenever possible.

Cheers,

Thanks Andrew. Glad you are here too as I don't get to FB that often. Some questions on the soon-to-be-released Flair 58:

1) What is the usable volume from the group head? (wrt lungo/allonge shot potential)
2) Any comments or data on the degree of temperature accuracy and holding time of the heater once water is added?
3) Any comments on whether the 58 is easier to control a pressure profile with versus other Flairs? (e.g. wrt the SEP pressure sensor which I understand was challenging to use with any consistency with earlier Flairs and wondering if this is better with the '58)
4) Any comments on the default basket quality/manufacturer that comes with the '58?

Of course any HB deals on the '58 would be of interest too!

1) What is the usable volume from the group head? (wrt lungo/allonge shot potential)

This really depends on both coffee and dose thereof. I drink pretty much strictly light/Nordic filter roast profiles as espresso, and for people in the same camp as me, I've been saying that 20g is probably your cut-off dose for getting a 3:1 (or 1:3 if you prefer ). I have done "Raollonge" testing for the peeps that are into that sort of thing and 15:70 has been achievable with the 58 on several occasions.

2) Any comments or data on the degree of temperature accuracy and holding time of the heater once water is added?

It holds indefinitely, and results are quite repeatable given a target pre-heat setting + input water temp. Granted, without doing fairly extensive testing and record keeping, the exact temp from a given preheat+water temp combo will still be "unknown", but this is more a case of finding what works and being able to easily repeat that.

If you just want to know "is this better than previous preheat methods", the answer is yes.

3) Any comments on whether the 58 is easier to control a pressure profile with versus other Flairs? (e.g. wrt the SEP pressure sensor which I understand was challenging to use with any consistency with earlier Flairs and wondering if this is better with the '58)

No SEP here, but I think it is. The required force is about the same as a pro (55lb for 9 bar pegged), but the ergonomics are much better. Also of note, shot times are down across the board, so less effort over time.

4) Any comments on the default basket quality/manufacturer that comes with the '58?

As far as I can tell, it might as well be an 18 from any of the bigger names in high precision, high flow baskets. It is ridged, sadly


Source:

I've had a Flair 58 for a month, and if you've read anything about it up to now, it's probably from me, directly or indirectly.

Aaron; Thanks for your insights. Do you know the total usable volume in the group head? I have heard 70-90ml from different sources including Flair videos. Was looking for confirmation on this.

I'll put the silicone cap on and weigh the input water if you like.


edit: ~100g.

Brewzologist wrote:Thanks Andrew. Glad you are here too as I don't get to FB that often. Some questions on the soon-to-be-released Flair 58:

1) What is the usable volume from the group head? (wrt lungo/allonge shot potential)
2) Any comments or data on the degree of temperature accuracy and holding time of the heater once water is added?
3) Any comments on whether the 58 is easier to control a pressure profile with versus other Flairs? (e.g. wrt the SEP pressure sensor which I understand was challenging to use with any consistency with earlier Flairs and wondering if this is better with the '58)
4) Any comments on the default basket quality/manufacturer that comes with the '58?

Hi Steve, I'm not sure I can answer any of these better than Aaron has, but i'll provide some additional context wherever possible:

1) 1:4 should be good to go if you work within the constraints of starting with 90ml fill and knowing similar to what Renatoa has shared from his experience with a similar lever that you'll see about 65%-70% of that back out in most cases.
2) it holds when paired with the best suited power setting
3) see this stress test here: 4) having compared the quality of our baskets under a 50x microscope with some of the best on the market such as Decent, Pullman, and IMS, I can say the quality is close enough 99% of the users would be unable to discern the difference. That said, the choice to go 58mm wasn't as much a marketing gimmick as some are calling it than a choice to provide users the freedom to swap in their favorite precision baskets and use their favorite tools regardless of how it may or may not improve the shot. We want what we want as they say.

let me know if you have any further questions.

Cheers,

If not a manufacturer secret, if you can reveal the heater power I can speculate more on the stability potential of Flair 58.
Actually, already did yesterday in the Flair 58 thread, hinting a power ballpark required to hold temperature indefinitely.

Flair Espresso wrote:That said, the choice to go 58mm wasn't as much a marketing gimmick as some are calling it than a choice to provide users the freedom to swap in their favorite precision baskets and use their favorite tools regardless of how it may or may not improve the shot. We want what we want as they say.

This is where you will be missing market share. Many of us don't want to buy more stuff that we already have. IMO, and its just that an opinion, you could/should have a $425 price point because we have the favorite stuff. I think you will sell many, but you will be missing sales too, and others are likely to follow with options. Again only my opinion, for now....

Hi Andrew, its nice to have you here on HB! I haven't seen this answered yet: Are the two halves of the machine, base & lever assembly, able to be easily separated or not?

CarefreeBuzzBuzz wrote: This is where you will be missing market share. Many of us don't want to buy more stuff that we already have. IMO, and its just that an opinion, you could/should have a $425 price point because we have the favorite stuff. I think you will sell many, but you will be missing sales too, and others are likely to follow with options. Again only my opinion, for now....

Thanks for the feedback, Michael. We've discussed selling barebones for less, and this may come to pass at some later time. We'll let the market tell us if this course of action is necessary.